How Country Star Jason Isbell Is Becoming The Anti-Morgan Wallen

“There are a lot of country music fans who don’t seem to know that country music is Black music.”

On today's episode of BuzzFeed Daily, we broke down the top pop culture headlines AND discussed Jason Isbell. You can listen below or scroll down to read more about the interview!

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So let's dive right into it! Recently we talked to BuzzFeed News’ Elamin Abdelmahmoud about Jason Isbell and how racism is ingrained in the country music scene. Here's some of our conversation:

BuzzFeed Daily: So you just wrote this massive profile for BuzzFeed News about Jason Isbell and the historical racism ingrained in country music. You've spoken on this podcast about the outsized racism and sexism in the country music industry before. What is it about this subject that you find so compelling?

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Elamin Abdelmahmoud: I think I find the historical approach to country music to be really interesting. There are a lot of country music fans who don't seem to know that country music is Black music. It comes from Black music. It is an offshoot of combining a lot of styles of music that were prevalent in the south. And about 100 years ago, record executives looked at white and Black bands who were doing the same kinds of music. And they said, "You know what? All these white bands are now doing hillbilly music and all the Black bands are doing something called race records" and then race records developed into a bunch of other categories, and hillbilly music got rebranded as country music. Literally, the reason we have genres to begin with is because racism and capitalism — two things we famously don't like — combined to make a super monster. That's why you have a genre to begin with. And so I've always been interested in people who cling on to the idea of genre so tightly because, to me, country music has always been Black music.

BuzzFeed Daily: Something really interesting about Jason, that you wrote about, is his antagonism towards country music, or at the very least, being categorized as a country musician. So where does that conflict stem from?

EA: A few things. He concedes that he writes about sort of similar topics that the rest of country music does. However, he doesn't consider himself a country musician. He considers himself to be in a rock and roll band. But one of the things that we talked about is that he is also kind of done with this concept of genres, right? Because these genres are so restrictive and they come from this place of, every time you believe in a firm genre boundary, all you're doing is saying, "Yeah, they were right 100 years ago to make these firm divisions between these genres, to segregate music in the way that they did." I think Jason Isbell sort of traverses a bunch of different styles of music, whether it's Americana or rock and roll or country. I think he sort of straddles the line between all of those things, but it was just interesting to hear the way that he pushes back against just the notion of genre to begin with.

BuzzFeed Daily: You spoke to Jason in the middle of his eight-night residency at Nashville's Ryman Auditorium, and this residency was pretty historic in that seven of the eight nights he had Black female performers opening for him. When you spoke to Jason, did he explain what his intentions were with this choice?

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EA: Yeah, we talked about that. That was sort of the impetus for me going. It's been an interesting year in country music in the sense that Morgan Wallen, who is probably the genre's biggest star of the moment, was caught on video saying the n-word earlier this year. A few months later, Jason Isbell announces that he's doing his Ryman residency. It's a thing that he does every year. Only this year, seven out of the eight nights, he has a different Black woman opening for him each of those nights. To me, that felt like an intentional kind of counterprogramming. You know, the industry's going this way, but he's going to do something that's different. 

So I wanted to confirm that. I wanted to ask about the motivation behind that. And the answer that he gave me was, "Look, yeah, it is in fact, boldly against the thing that happened earlier this year," however — and this is the biggest thing — he didn't mean this as some kind of fucking afterschool special, just like, "And now here are all these Black women." For him, it was all these women that he really enjoys listening to. Their music means a lot to him. One of the things that he said is that he really wanted to come out on stage to the energy that they'd create on stage — that's like something that he wanted to be a part of. So it was not so much, "Here are all these Black women, let's pick this moment for that kind of thing," as much as he was just really just loving the music that these women want to make. 

BuzzFeed News: You spoke to several of the Black female artists who opened for Isbell, including Mickey Guyton. She's someone who has been in the country music industry for over a decade, but is now starting to receive the recognition that she actually deserves. Did Mickey go into detail about what this moment means to her and how she's planning on using her new stardom?

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EA: For sure. Mickey talked a lot about the fact that it has taken her 10 years to put out her debut record. It just came out in September 2021, and this is a woman who's been signed to a label since 2011. Part of the delay has been label machinery sort of trying to categorize her as an R&B artist. You know, she's a Black woman. She's making country music and she's like, "Look, I don't make R&B. I know that music. I love that music, but that's not the kind of thing that I'm interested in." She kept on fighting those battles, and after a lot of wins last year, she was nominated for a Grammy this year. Her album is up for several more. So it just really feels gratifying to be in this Mickey moment. But she's not going to rest here. She's not like, "Oh, I made it. I'm done. I can sort of like now coast on my success." She's someone who is conscious of the next generation of the people who are facing similar battles as her, and she wants to make sure that those people get to see the help that they need. 

BuzzFeed Daily: We were talking a little earlier about Morgan Wallen, who is country music's most profitable star. He came under fire earlier this year after being caught on tape saying a racial slur. And after the scandal, he was sort of canceled for a moment, but has ended the year as the top-selling musical artist across all genres. Does something like this dishearten you? How do you reconcile it with the progress trying to be made by artists like Isbell?

John Shearer / Getty Images for Ryman Auditorium

EA: I think I think it's actually genuinely tough to process the news that Morgan Wallen is the top-selling artist of all genres because you've had so many successful artists this year. I just want everyone to take a moment and think about all the artists you've had come out this year. Olivia Rodrigo sold several trucks worth of albums. Drake, Kanye — all these people put out records — Adele put out a record this year! And none of them are were able to top Morgan Wallen. Morgan Wallen is the top-selling artist of the year in the US. That's pretty bonkers, when we consider that in the context of the fact that for a few months he was banned from radio. You know, radio stations said, "We can't associate with you right now," and fans rebelled and turned out in droves to buy his album. 

So there is something going on there with the need to protect a figure like Morgan Wallen and his vision of what country music is that obviously deserves a counterpoint or counter-voice. I think Jason Isbell is not intentionally trying to be that counter-voice, but it seemed like it was a moment to contrast the two of them for many reasons. Not the least of which is that one of Morgan's biggest songs is a cover of a Jason Isbell's. "Cover Me Up" is probably Jason Isbell's biggest song, and Morgan Wallen covered it. It's on his most recent album. One of the things that Jason Isbell did earlier this year was say that all the money that he makes from [Morgan Wallen’s cover of "Cover Me Up," he'll be donating to Black-led organizations locally in Nashville. So it's a really sharp contrast opportunity for us to look at two different stories that are happening in Nashville.

BuzzFeed Daily: So the main idea of this piece is how Jason is combating the themes of white nostalgia and white victimhood that are so prevalent in country music. In your opinion, what is he doing that you find to be effective on this front? And what do you think is next for country music?

EA: I think he's doing a lot in terms of being an example that counters white nostalgia. He's somebody who says, "I grew up in Alabama. I grew up cleaning and shooting and putting together the guns that people are talking about when they want to ban assault weapons. And I agree that there should be a ban on those things." 

There's a certain story that particularly identified rural America tells about itself, about white victimhood, about being poor, about being particularly victimized. It's the idea that makes a concept like, Make America Great Again, particularly salient. It's like they're trying to restore that nostalgic idea that's been lost. 

Isbell, I think, is just telling a different story, a counter-story to that. One of the stories that he told me is how when he grew up, he didn't really think about whether they were poor or rich. But then he got a little bit older and he was like, "Oh, I grew up poor." And then he started touring the country and he was like, "Oh, no, I grew up fine. I grew up fine and I don't have any need to believe the story that my people and I are actually victims because I've seen the ways that poverty can manifest itself in the indigenous territories out west." When you sort of have that experience, you have a, I think, cleaner and clearer version of what America looks like, and he's sort of trying to counter that, I think.

BuzzFeed Daily: Do you think other people will follow his example?

Tim Mosenfelder / WireImage

EA: I don't know if they will, necessarily. But I think what's exciting to me is that these Black women don't need their permission to be given the opportunity. I think they're sort of taking it for themselves and they're helping each other as they do that. Brittney Spencer is, I think, going to have an amazing 2022 because she's got a couple of songs that make me go, "Please put them out. It's going to be huge when you do." Allison Russell just had an album that was recognized as one of the best albums of the year by several places like the New York Times. Pitchfork, those kinds of places. She's getting the credit that I think she deserves. 

And so when I started to think about those names, I just start to think about the spaces that they can occupy. And it feels like the opportunities for them are bigger. One of the things that Mickey talked to me about is that there are lots of artists who will make sure that they take out someone who needs to be given the opportunity on tour. Chris Stapleton taking out someone like Yola, for example — that seems like a really beautiful kind of mash-up of two powerhouse voices. Yola deserves that spotlight, for sure. So it feels like maybe that's the next place we're going to, is artists who are maybe starting to think about their own responsibility in helping artists who need to be highlighted and how they can best use their platforms to do that.

In the rest of the episode, we also talked about how, just a few months after being removed as one of Britney Spears’ conservators, her father, Jamie Spears, has requested she continue to pay his legal fees.

Instagram: @britneyspears

In an article from Variety, it was reported that Jamie Spears’ lawyer charges about $1200 an hour.

According to the legal documents filed last week, quote “Prompt payment on account of Jamie’s attorneys’ fees is necessary to ensure the Conservatorship can be wound up quickly and efficiently to allow [Britney] to take control of her life as she and Jamie desire. The fiduciary obligations Jamie owes did not end with his suspension or with the order terminating the Conservatorship.”

Plus, if you feel like it’s time for Grey’s Anatomy to end, you’re not alone: Ellen Pompeo is also ready to say goodbye to the show.

Stefanie Keenan / Getty Images

She told Insider: "I've been trying to focus on convincing everybody that it should end. ​I feel like I'm the super naïve one who keeps saying, 'But what's the story going to be, what story are we going to tell?'"

Unfortunately for Ellen, it seems there’s still just too much money to be made. She said: "Everyone's like, 'Who cares, Ellen? It makes a gazillion dollars.'"

As always, thanks for listening! And if you ever want to suggest stories or just want to say hi, you can reach us at [e-mail].