Jenna Ushkowitz And Kevin McHale Talk "Glee" Memories, Cast Parties At Their House, And Their "Reckoning" With Ryan Murphy

On moments when Kevin McHale broke character: "You see Kevin on camera a lot. His reactions were to the actor, not to the character. You will see Artie, and he'll be [laughing] and that was actually Kevin reacting to our performance."

Since its debut in 2009, Glee has taken the pop culture world by storm. Whether you were a theater-obsessed nerd who couldn't get enough of the series or just a bystander scouring the tabloids for behind-the-scenes drama, it's hard to deny that the show had a serious, lasting impact. Now, 13 years later, stars Jenna Ushkowitz and Kevin McHale, who starred as Tina and Artie, are ready to reunite with the cast and crew, rewatch the show, and talk about what it was really like working on Glee. 

So, to celebrate their new iHeartRadio podcast, And That's What You Really Missed, Jenna and Kevin sat down with BuzzFeed to set the record straight and talk about the series that changed their lives. We talk about their infamous cast parties, moments they broke character, the plethora of A-Listers who adored the show, and so much more. Now without further ado, here's everything — dare I say — you missed on Glee: 

Courtesy of iHeartRadio / BuzzFeed

1. First, what made you want to restart your Glee rewatch podcast together and look back on your time on the show? Especially because with this podcast and the Discovery+ documentary in the works, everyone seems to be interested in what went on behind the scenes.

iHeartRadio / @jennaushkowitz / instagram.com

Jenna Ushkowitz: When we were doing [our former podcast] Showmance, it turned into the Glee recap podcast just because that's what the people wanted. We threw ourselves into it without really thinking deeply about what we wanted it to be. When Naya [Rivera] passed away, we decided to take a break from the podcast. It was a really good and needed break, for sure. It felt like iHeartRadio came to us and said, "Look, we'd love to bring the podcast back and help you guys reimagine it in some way." And we had this reckoning with Ryan Murphy, as you listen on [Episode 1] and we're in a much different place. Now, I think all of us have come back with new eyes — a fresh look — now that our friend has passed away. And we're just choosing to look at the good moments that we've had and all the joy that it did bring to us, and to the people who watched around the world. 

In terms of the Discovery+ documentary, it feels even more important, to me at least, to do the podcast because we were the ones who were there. And we were the ones experiencing this. And we know what really happened. So you know, for me, it feels even more pertinent to actually be the ones to share our experience when people are sharing experiences that they didn't have.

Kevin McHale: Yeah. You put that very nicely. I also think the other reason why we wanted to do this was that with the pandemic and TikTok, there has been this weird resurgence of Glee. A whole new generation of people has been finding it. Like, children, who were not alive when the show started. We talked to Ryan about that, too, about just how cool and what an opportunity that is for people. They're not necessarily attached to all of the, let's say, drama, or the bad things people will talk about in the press because they're just seeing this with new eyes. I think it's so fun to go back now and watch it with that perspective of somebody new finding it in 2022, a very different time than when the show was first airing. After Naya passed, it was definitely hard to even consider watching the show. But being able to look at it through this positive, more useful, and current lens is really exciting to us. We're going to use that and go more in-depth in different areas of the show. And I think we're planning a pretty good thing here, so I hope people enjoy it.

2. You mentioned a whole new generation of people finding Glee now that the series is available on streaming, what has it been like meeting some of those younger fans who definitely wouldn't have watched the show when it aired?

20thcentfox / Everett Collection

Kevin: It's very weird! When I went to New York, for the first time since the pandemic, people started looking at me. I had kids shouting at me when I went to grab coffee with one of my friends. Then, we were walking and we stopped at a light and these school kids came up to me, they were 14 or 15, maybe? They were shaking, freaking out, and asking for photos. And when they left and my friend was like, "What the hell is going on? They were children." I'm like, "I don't get it! I don't know! This whole week this has been happening. I have no idea!" And I called Jenna and I'm like, "You gotta be here. This is very strange. It's like it's 2010!" It's a shocking thing, and I guess it's because of TikTok? I don't know. But it's nice though. It's also just like, "Are you old enough to be watching this?"

Jenna: Well, that's what we were saying back in 2010. We would have all these young fans, and we would say, "Are you sure your parents should be letting you watch this?" And they're like, "We LOVE the show!"

3. That's so wild! How does it feel knowing that the fans (myself included) see Glee as a “comfort show” and still rewatch it over and over again?

20thcentfox / Everett Collection

Jenna: I think that parts of Glee definitely stand the test of time and I really appreciate that. I mean, we've said from the very beginning that music is a universal language in our show and that everybody loves it. It ranges from Broadway to the Top 40s, I mean, you name it, we've done it. I'm really happy that there's this resurgence on Disney+ and Hulu, and kids are watching it again. It really warms my heart. We've just gotten so many messages along the way. The reason why we came back with And That's What You Really Missed was that everybody was asking for us to bring back the podcast. And honestly, had we not heard from everybody, every single day, I don't think we would have done it. It really is a love letter to our fans and to the people who continue to support us.

I think Glee hits on all these amazing progressive social issues in the show. And that's a nod to Ryan Murphy, his choice, the things that were happening in the world, and things that impacted him in his life. I'm grateful that we were able to kind of push the bar during that time, and that people are still experiencing it that way.

4. It was so great getting to hear you chat with Ryan Murphy about the good ol' days during Episode 1, do you keep in touch with anyone else from the show? And can we expect any more exciting guests on the pod?

@kevinmchale / instagram.com

Kevin: We're all very, very close still. I think what's most exciting is Ryan doesn't do a lot of interviews about Glee, especially the pilot. So, to be able to show people how we do communicate like we're all that close, we all talk frequently. I think we set the bar pretty high now with Ryan. And I think that's a good precedent to start with. We're going to have a lot of our friends and coworkers and even fans — we want to have people who were impacted by the show who we don't necessarily know. We just want a wide variety of people who had some sort of experience with it. And yes, that includes some more special guests. Definitely.

5. Exciting! I want to pivot a little, so Glee was notorious for it’s wild storylines, what’s one storyline that shocked you to your core after reading it in the script?

Fox

Jenna: Well, there's one that actually I wasn't a part of — I think Tina had kind of gone off to school at this point...she disappeared — where Kevin was an STD. 

Kevin: [Laughs] I think once very quickly in the series, it's established that the storylines are gonna get crazy. Like once there's a hysterical pregnancy and even just the pilot? Like, yeah, things are gonna get weird. In a fun way. 

But the STD, I have to agree. I was dressed in this STD costume in Washington Square Park in New York City at, like, 6:30 in the morning. And people were passing me on their way to work. It was one of those moments where I was so tired and cold and sitting there being like, "This is my life. This is how I make a living." But it could be so much worse. You're getting to do all these crazy, weird things, but it was a safe place to do it. I remember doing Rocky Horror. 

Jenna: Oh, yeah! 

Kevin: This is the stuff you dream about when you're a kid? [Laughs] Yeah, these storylines are absolutely bonkers. 

Jenna: But everybody's in it together. 

Kevin: Yeah, it's sort of a dream. There was not a shortage of weird storylines. 

Jenna: I know people were very shocked by Tina "vapo-raping" Blaine, which also doesn't really hold up. I don't think we could call it "vapo raping" in this day in age, which like...we just shouldn't. But kind of like what Kevin was talking about. Me sitting on Darren [Criss], and people were like, "This is ridiculous." But [in real life] it was, like, midnight, and Darren and I were singing songs in between takes. He was like, "I get to sit here and sleep for the first time? This is awesome!" 

This whole storyline was actually based on real life because I was notorious for dating gay men in my younger years. I just gotta tell people, because this is what happens. I was in musical theater, and so that was just kind of a thing that happened to me. And [the writers] thought "That's Tina's thing." So that's where the "vapo-rape" story came from. And I know, fans were very shocked by it as much as I was.

6. Going off of that, in your rewatch has there been a storyline you completely forgot about and were kind of shocked to find out it happened?

20thcentfox / Everett Collection

Kevin: All of them? [Laughs] Our memory is garbage. 

Jenna: Horrible, horrible. 

Kevin: Like, it's a rewatch...but we're watching it for the first time. [Laughs] I can remember more behind-the-scenes things of like, "Oh, somebody said that." Or like, "This is what we did in basecamp." Or in our trailers or what we had for lunch that day, I can remember those things a lot of the time. But storylines...really couldn't tell you.

Jenna: It's almost like when you used to take tests, and you would remember it in your short-term memory, and then like, you walk out of the room and you forget. That's the way I kind of treat Glee sometimes. 

Kevin: Yeah, when you do 22 episodes in 10 months, you were just on lunch breaks, or recording songs, and then doing dance rehearsals. Our capacity was already full. So we couldn't hold on to anything. [Laughs] 

7. So Kevin, in the first episode of the pod, you talked about breaking character and staring into the camera during “What Does the Fox Say?” Are there more similar moments that we may have missed?

Fox

Jenna: You see Kevin on camera a lot. His reactions were to the actor, not to the character. You will see Artie, and he'll be [laughing] and that was actually Kevin reacting to our performance.

Kevin: A lot of times I wouldn't necessarily be included in the regular choreography. And so I was like, "I gotta get my camera time!" [Laughs] And so people would do crazy things like off-camera for me. I was all about it. 

8. On the pod, you also mentioned being "the last to break." Can you talk a little bit about that? Was that in regard to your character on-screen?

20thcentfox / Everett Collection

Kevin: Being the last break, I don't necessarily mean on camera. I was the last one to break, like, emotionally. [Laughs] I think because of the work schedule. We were young, and we were silly and dumb, and on this wildly successful show. It's like you're in college, it's sort of like the same experience except we're on TV. And I held it together, and then there was ["What Does the Fox Say?"] and there was another episode — I think they were back to back — where I was just like "What's happening?!" I also was not someone who would normally speak up or anything, and I think I started to get vocal at that point like, "Hey, guys, I know it's not my place, I'm just here to make sure the check clears...but, like, what?!"

Jenna: I think when we talk about breaking on the show, I mean, after six years, you know, you're bound to break. But I think for Kevin, and for all of us, he always had a deep sense of appreciation for the show and a lot of us talk about when we booked the pilot, where our bank accounts were, and where our lives were at the time. I was deep in credit card and student debt. You know? You're on your last couple of dollars in your savings account, and that was a lot of us. So, I think there was a deep sense of appreciation going in for this and then along the way you obviously lose sight sometimes. But Kevin really held on for a long time. 

Kevin: Thank you! 

Jenna: And a lot of us did. But I think along the way it's inevitable.

Kevin: You get tired, you get run down, there are voices from the outside...everyone loses themselves for a second, you know? I think that's what it really is, where you get caught up in it and then we have each other to be like, "Get it together!"

Jenna: "Let's go!"

Kevin: "Get back in the game!"

BuzzFeed: Yeah, that's totally understandable. You were in such a bubble and working nonstop for six years. 

9. In her book, Sorry Not Sorry: Dreams, Mistakes, and Growing Up, Naya Rivera talked about the infamous cast parties you hosted at your place when you were roommates. How did those come to be?

@jennaushkowitz / instagram.com

Kevin: [Laughs] I remember I went over to her house one night and we drunkenly read through the manuscript. She wanted me to see it before it was fully published. I was like, "You can give more detail." And she was like, "No, no, no, no, I took a lot out. I want to be respectful." I'm like, "You could talk about the parties more, we don't care." She didn't want to put anybody out. 

Jenna: We love to hang out and we loved each other, that was it. We would be like, "Well, whose house are we going to after this?" Or "What restaurant are we going to?" It was our house because there were two of us living there together. It was like majority rules. And our house was pretty close to set. It was a safe place for us. Do you know what I mean? There's nobody there with cameras, there's nobody there to witness something. It was just a really safe space for us to let loose and have fun and be together. We had a lot of space so people could sleep over and it was just like being in college again for us.

Kevin: It also felt protected, like geographically. Like we were sort of central to where everybody lived. We were in Laurel Canyon, on a mountain but nestled in all the trees. It was really private and everyone could just really let loose.

10. Do you have any favorite core memories from those parties?

Instagram: @kevinmchale

Kevin: We played games a lot. I remember there was one time we played our version of "Celebrity," which we call the "Dirty Word Game" because we would just put really dirty words and phrases into a bowl instead of celebrities. We played it quite a lot. There was one time with Harry [Shum Jr.] and his now-wife Shelby [Rabara]. We're all sitting on the couch and Shelby's on the ground with her [legs up] and she can't say anything. She's acting out a phrase. 

Jenna: Everybody's just screaming out dirty words. [Laughs]

Kevin: Yeah! But that stuff happened all the time. And so obviously, there's nothing off limits, so we would really push each other.

Jenna: That house was also haunted. So we definitely have some like, haunted house stories.

BuzzFeed: Oh my god, really? 

Jenna: Oh yeah. Some people saw ghosts. For sure. 

Kevin: Yeah, and I didn't believe in any of that stuff before, and there were so many instances of people interacting with the ghosts. Like, Naya fully saw it and described it.

Jenna: Harry's dog came down and was sniffing around the room where the ghost hung out. 

Kevin: Lea [Michele] ran out of the house, like, the ghost chased Lea out of the house. 

Jenna: She left. 

Kevin: She full-on left. There was another friend, months later, who did not know Naya and came in describing the exact same thing that Naya saw. We were like, "What is happening?!"

Jenna: Yeah, very strange. 

BuzzFeed: Whoa, that's wild. 

11. You mention a lot of huge celebrities were fans of the show. Who was someone you were genuinely shocked to find out was a fan of Glee?

20th Century Fox / youtube.com

Kevin: Stevie Nicks was the most surreal. I had randomly met her before, pre-Glee, but I don't think she would have remembered that. I think that was sort of the moment where you have somebody like that, acknowledging the existence of us. Obviously, it wasn't about any one of us. It was all of us as a whole, the show as a whole. And being able to, I mean, it sounds so corny, but being able to be a part of something that did touch and reach so many people like Stevie Nicks was very, very surreal. 

I also was just very starstruck by Gwyneth Paltrow. I was so awkward with her. Like, now we're good friends. I was so weird with her that first episode, we'd be like sitting in between takes and I'd just be staring like it was the queen. It was very strange.

Jenna: I think, for me, at the time it was these rising artists, aside from, Paul McCartney, who gave his whole catalog to Ryan. But these rising artists...like Lady Gaga, at the time, was on her climb. To have been able to perform her songs and watch her talk about the show was so massive. And Adele. Just to see these rising stars and watch their careers go, and then they're also talking about Glee.  

12. And then you also had the opportunity to meet a bunch of iconic people like Britney Spears and Lindsay Lohan, who both guest-starred on the show. What was it like working alongside them, almost like contemporaries?

Fox / Everett

Jenna: We didn't treat them like that. [Laughs] We were definitely very starstruck by everybody. The big one for me was Britney Spears. And I think Ryan knew that me and Heather [Morris] were the biggest Britney fans on set. That was, like, a really big one. It felt big because there was just so much security, and it was a big to-do when she came on. It's just a wild experience to have them be a part of something that is like home for you. It felt very surreal. We were just so grateful and kinda shocked that people wanted to be a part of that.

13. At the end of the series we got a glimpse of where the characters would be in 2020, but where do you think Tina and Artie would be today in 2022?

Fox

Kevin: They're happy. They're living in New York, living their artistic dreams. 

Jenna: Artie's a big, famous director. He's had his big hit, his Titanic, if you will.

Kevin: He's probably freaked out because it's not critically acclaimed enough. It's too commercial. So, he goes down this weird indie rabbit hole. 

Jenna: I think Tina has become the CEO of some crazy company or some startup, like The Wing, that she runs in New York. 

14. There were so many themed episodes throughout the years, if Glee were still on in 2022, which songs or artists do you think the New Directions would cover?

Fox / Everett Collection

Jenna: Hamilton for sure. We definitely would've done that.

Kevin: Any Beyoncé. I think when Lemonade came out, I was like, "Oh, this would have been really fun to do. This would've been great."

Jenna: I also think, going with Broadway again, Dear Evan Hansen, we definitely would have done.

Kevin: Absolutely. I wonder who could've done that? Do you think I would've been Evan Hansen? 

Jenna: No. [Laughs] You would've wanted to, but you wouldn't have gotten the song. 

Kevin: She doesn't have the range!

Jenna: That would also be the thing, we would be like "Oh, I can't wait to do that song," and then somebody else would do it and you're like, "Yeah, they did it better. Fine."

BuzzFeed: One I always see on TikTok would be "drivers license" by Olivia Rodrigo but from Rachel's perspective where she sings about Quinn and Finn. 

Kevin: Oh yes, absolutely.

Jenna: For sure, 100%.

15. You both are such great friends off-screen, did your friendship inspire Tina/Artie’s relationship? Or did your friendship come after your characters got together?

@jennaushkowitz / instagram.com

Kevin: I think a little of both. But they were always sort of linked. And then, I think, either because we felt that, or we just naturally did click. I don't know, that's probably a little of both. I think also Ryan, Brad [Falchuk], and Ian [Brennan] could see our friendships and definitely watched us, and wrote for those things. I think it was both.

Jenna: It's like, they write for Tina and Artie, and then we hang out more, and then we're on set more together. You create this workplace relationship as well that kind of transcends into your characters and then off-screen. 

Kevin: It's like the chicken or the egg situation. 

Jenna: Yes!

16. One of my favorite episodes was "Props", where Tina hits her head and has a dream where everyone plays different characters. What was it like getting to explore your own versions of Rachel and Santana?

Fox

Jenna: It's really scary how good everybody was at playing everybody else, like really scary. I would look at Kevin in a scene and he'd have the ponytail. I was like, "I just can't look at you like this." And then there was Naya in the wheelchair. I was like, "I am gonna have a conniption right now, this is wild." It was really, really, really fun. And everybody was a good sport about it as well. It was all out of love. It wasn't like making fun of anybody.

Kevin: It was very respectful on set, and to get to play like that. We got to do crazy things, but to get to play amongst our friends in that way, was just so much fun. Seeing people do their impressions of other people, because we hadn't seen it. We didn't know until the scene happened. We'd just be losing it. I remember there was one scene that happens in the auditorium. And I think it was Dianna [Agron] who was pretending to be Vanessa [Lengie's character, Sugar Motta], and we were absolutely losing it.

Jenna: We were dying. It was so good, so good. That is a really great episode. 

17. And finally, if you could play any other character on the show who would you pick?

Fox / Everett Collection

Jenna: I feel like now my answer has changed quite a bit. At one point it was Kurt, for his costumes. I think Emma Pillsbury would be fun. 

Kevin: My answer was always Kurt as well. But I feel like...maybe Blaine now. 

Jenna: Yeah! That's good, Kevin.

Kevin: Because I couldn't cry that much. 

Jenna: [Laughs] That's fair, too. 

Kevin: Vocally, my range is more similar to Darren, and I'm never gonna out-act Chris [Colfer]. 

Be sure to listen to iHeartRadio's And That's What You Really Missed wherever you listen to your podcasts, and stay tuned for new episodes every Monday.